00111: Religion?
By: Blackheart, with rebuttal by Craqhore[ Ed note: The views of an individual member of Digital Darkness does not reflect the views of the whole. Then again, Blackheart isn't a DD member, so live with it. -oc ]
I would just like to say that I'm an atheist and not afraid to voice my opinions against the religious masses. People often question this after they find out, "How can you not believe in a God or some other ultimate being?" Here are my reasons:
Something has to be created by something else, so how was God created? Of course also according to this nothing should exist, but it does. The thing about most religions is that they consider all others wrong, which means you're going to hell or an equivalent to it. So by accepting any one religion you're basically saying that all others are wrong. Which it turn means at least half the world is going to hell.
Religion was originally created to explain things which people could not figure out (i.e. A cave man sees lightning, he thinks the gods must be angry). However, in present times science has explained many of these things, weakening religion's hold upon the masses. Also, I believe in science more than religion because science has something which religion lacks, physical proof. Science backs up its findings with data and documentation, while religion says "believe it because I said so.". This requires a blind faith in "prophecy" or some sort of written word which is usually very old and therefore cannot be proven or disproven by scientific means. I see that in the future as we learn and explain more and more science will gradually replace religion, as shown in a general trend to atheism and agnosticism.
The concept of religion is hypothesized by some as an instrument of the government or ruling body to install morals upon the people, in order for them to be governed more easily. Basically threatening the people with eternal suffering for doing something that would adversely effect the society. Slowly government changed these basic rules into laws to also punish people in the physical world to deter any non-believers. In most current governments the body itself has split from the church and makes and declares new laws (although they are still derived from basic religious morals). Therefore government installs morals upon the people by punishing them in the physical world rather than by threatening eternal damnation, somewhat taking some of the meaning of having religion away.
If I were to walk out today and declare myself the son of God, a prophet, or a God, people would generally think I was loony. And then if a group of us got together and wrote a book about our adventures and miracles and published it, and told the masses to worship it they would probably have us committed. Sure there would be a couple people that believed, but then it would be labeled a cult. Which leads me to my next point the difference between a cult and a religion is simple, one has a large group of followers. Basically I would be condemned if a wrote a book of impossible deeds with no proof other than that of "I said so".
A large majority of people believe in religion because it was implanted in them at an early age by their parents. They are taught that this is right and since they have always been taught this from a very early age believe it to be right and do not question it. Religion naturally wants to be spread to keep it alive, after all religion is a business. This is implanted strongly in its followers so they try to spread their religion to others, or try to convert others to their religion. This inevitably leads to conflict, and religion is probably the number one cause for war in all of history. This usually happens when a religion cannot take "no" for an answer and insist they're right and if you don't switch you'll be condemned to hell. So through this twisted logic they believe they're helping you. Religion, therefore is more of a problem than a solution.
People need a reason to live and religion attempts to give them one, give them a reason to keep going. Many people cannot think of living without religion, without any hope of life after death. I myself believe that there is no such thing as a spirit and that thought is merely a chemical reaction that happens in our brains. I believe there is no life after death, just nothing. The brain's biochemical functions cease so therefore, you cease. Many people this would leave destitute and I personally really don't mind if people believe in a religion if it gives this hope. If there was some way for contrasting religions to live in harmony that would be great, but it's never going to happen. The big problem is they WON'T FUCKING LEAVE ME ALONE! Or anyone else alone. And that is all I really want.
Rebuttal
I, Craqhore, am responding to this. Although I do not believe in a concept of God as an old man in a throne, I have been very confused about my spirituality and, as such, have done much research on ALL religions. I have come to the conclusion that there IS a "highest/lowest/most fundamental" principle, and that such a principle should be slapped with the name "God." Furthermore, this transcendant field of sheer existence was worshipped by primitive man, as embodied by the psyche in the form of a mandala or circle. (Campbell, Masks of God I: Primitive Mythology.) Such a form of worship of the psyche was then divided amongst various ASPECTS of the psyche, such as war (wrath), hunger (food), etc. Whatever aspect of the psyche dominated, became the dominant god. Hence, the hebraic tradition of the sky god/war god being the ONLY god. As the sky is uniform and hostile (sandstorms), the traditions of patriarchal society (enforcement of uniformity) and war, as embodied in Yahweh, became supreme. Through a twist of fate, that tradition dominated in the Middle East, and because of the ME's cultural traditions of assimilating conquerors, became the dominant religion of the Western World. The Persians, too, experienced this with Zoroastrianism.
But, and this is the key point, all religions eventually return to the non-personified mysticism. Case in point: Unitarianism for Christianity, Sufism for Judaism, Buddhism for Hinduism, Manicheanism for Zoroastrianism, et al, believe in an "atheist" tradition of a non-personified God. God is not a man, God is a CONCEPT. This hearkens to the days of Pythagoras when he believed God was mathematics.
Such a philosophy, in my opinion, makes more sense. Given the fact that the majority of the universe is non-sentient, why should a CONSCIOUS God represent the non-conscious universe? Furthermore, a God as seen in the Bible would and must be insane. First of all, a God that can conceive of Hell, a place worse than even a concentration camp, must be psychotic; for Him to conceive of heaven makes Him bipolar. For Him to conceive of Armageddon makes him genocidal; no, actually OMNIcidal. I doubt that any universe would be run by an insane god; if so, what is the point of religion, because religion is an attempt to appease/obey a god. Why follow a god if you cannot predict or obey it? These are the arguments against a personified God. People are by nature limited beings; an omnipotent omniscient God would overload the design, so to speak. If God can be everywhere at once, why have hands and feet?
Thus, we see an impersonal energy or principle, perhaps mathematics, perhaps sheer chaos, perhaps a combination of everything, as the "God" of the universe. I can't speculate any more than I can, but I can say that I can trust my physics equations more than I can trust Yahweh, and I can trust pure chaos to be more beautiful than Stone Age cosmology.
I would also like to dispute Blackheart's concept of the lack of an afterlife. Although I do not believe in an immortal or intangible soul, I do believe that the patterns of the atoms in our bodies make us who we are. As nothing more than slow fires, it is the pattern in which the flames burn that make us "us." (By this definition, I believe that fire IS alive, albeit no more sentient than an amoeba.)
However, this pattern can be restored. Accept, if you will, the fact that in an infinite amount of time, anything that CAN happen WILL happen to anything. Thus, somewhere along the road to infinity, perhaps 5 billion billion billion billion years ahead, all the atoms I had at the moment I died will reconfigure in a healthy newborn body, and all the atoms in my head will reconfigure in the pattern of cells my brain had the moment I died. Boom! A new lease on life.
But wait! There's more! Besides all going black and waking up in a hospital room 500,000,000 light years away ten trillion years in a future all amazed, I have more afterlives! Here are all the possible combinations:
Wham! Not only ONE afterlife, but EIGHT!!! (although YOU personally can only enjoy four of them). And the best part is, it WILL happen given enough time. Remember, there is no such thing as statistical impossibility; only IMPROBABILITY. And, because the universe is only 20 billion years old, it has not happened yet. but it will....
Of course, such beliefs, although different, are allowed under a secular government. I doubt that a belief like this would catch on under a theocracy. FIGHT THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT! RELIGION SHALL _NOT_ DICTATE WHAT *MY* BELIEFS ARE! Nor should they limit yours.
However, if you would like to subscribe to my belief, you can join my new cult, err, religious group, name pending. Email demigod@infostreet.com -SERIOUS APPLICANTS ONLY! I want to start my own cult!!! :) P.S. nobody has to castrate themselves or die.
A final word on religion: Recently, the heaven's gate group killed themselves, believing that an alien ship was hiding behind the Hale-Bopp comet. Recently, however, a tail of sodium ions were found behind the comet; these ions have never been seen behind a comet before. Furthermore, the tail points the WRONG way, TOWARD the sun...as if an alien ship were speeding away from the solar system? Hmmm.... and people laugh at the concept of people dying for something they cannot see nor hear. Look at the Catholics and Neanderthals. Both cannibalize their gods (the Eucharist, eating the Cave Bear.)
Anyway... this is just my opinion. I may be wrong.
-Craqhore
I would just like to say that I'm an atheist and not afraid to voice my opinions against the religious masses. People often question this after they find out, "How can you not believe in a God or some other ultimate being?" Here are my reasons:
Something has to be created by something else, so how was God created? Of course also according to this nothing should exist, but it does. The thing about most religions is that they consider all others wrong, which means you're going to hell or an equivalent to it. So by accepting any one religion you're basically saying that all others are wrong. Which it turn means at least half the world is going to hell.
Religion was originally created to explain things which people could not figure out (i.e. A cave man sees lightning, he thinks the gods must be angry). However, in present times science has explained many of these things, weakening religion's hold upon the masses. Also, I believe in science more than religion because science has something which religion lacks, physical proof. Science backs up its findings with data and documentation, while religion says "believe it because I said so.". This requires a blind faith in "prophecy" or some sort of written word which is usually very old and therefore cannot be proven or disproven by scientific means. I see that in the future as we learn and explain more and more science will gradually replace religion, as shown in a general trend to atheism and agnosticism.
The concept of religion is hypothesized by some as an instrument of the government or ruling body to install morals upon the people, in order for them to be governed more easily. Basically threatening the people with eternal suffering for doing something that would adversely effect the society. Slowly government changed these basic rules into laws to also punish people in the physical world to deter any non-believers. In most current governments the body itself has split from the church and makes and declares new laws (although they are still derived from basic religious morals). Therefore government installs morals upon the people by punishing them in the physical world rather than by threatening eternal damnation, somewhat taking some of the meaning of having religion away.
If I were to walk out today and declare myself the son of God, a prophet, or a God, people would generally think I was loony. And then if a group of us got together and wrote a book about our adventures and miracles and published it, and told the masses to worship it they would probably have us committed. Sure there would be a couple people that believed, but then it would be labeled a cult. Which leads me to my next point the difference between a cult and a religion is simple, one has a large group of followers. Basically I would be condemned if a wrote a book of impossible deeds with no proof other than that of "I said so".
A large majority of people believe in religion because it was implanted in them at an early age by their parents. They are taught that this is right and since they have always been taught this from a very early age believe it to be right and do not question it. Religion naturally wants to be spread to keep it alive, after all religion is a business. This is implanted strongly in its followers so they try to spread their religion to others, or try to convert others to their religion. This inevitably leads to conflict, and religion is probably the number one cause for war in all of history. This usually happens when a religion cannot take "no" for an answer and insist they're right and if you don't switch you'll be condemned to hell. So through this twisted logic they believe they're helping you. Religion, therefore is more of a problem than a solution.
People need a reason to live and religion attempts to give them one, give them a reason to keep going. Many people cannot think of living without religion, without any hope of life after death. I myself believe that there is no such thing as a spirit and that thought is merely a chemical reaction that happens in our brains. I believe there is no life after death, just nothing. The brain's biochemical functions cease so therefore, you cease. Many people this would leave destitute and I personally really don't mind if people believe in a religion if it gives this hope. If there was some way for contrasting religions to live in harmony that would be great, but it's never going to happen. The big problem is they WON'T FUCKING LEAVE ME ALONE! Or anyone else alone. And that is all I really want.
Rebuttal
I, Craqhore, am responding to this. Although I do not believe in a concept of God as an old man in a throne, I have been very confused about my spirituality and, as such, have done much research on ALL religions. I have come to the conclusion that there IS a "highest/lowest/most fundamental" principle, and that such a principle should be slapped with the name "God." Furthermore, this transcendant field of sheer existence was worshipped by primitive man, as embodied by the psyche in the form of a mandala or circle. (Campbell, Masks of God I: Primitive Mythology.) Such a form of worship of the psyche was then divided amongst various ASPECTS of the psyche, such as war (wrath), hunger (food), etc. Whatever aspect of the psyche dominated, became the dominant god. Hence, the hebraic tradition of the sky god/war god being the ONLY god. As the sky is uniform and hostile (sandstorms), the traditions of patriarchal society (enforcement of uniformity) and war, as embodied in Yahweh, became supreme. Through a twist of fate, that tradition dominated in the Middle East, and because of the ME's cultural traditions of assimilating conquerors, became the dominant religion of the Western World. The Persians, too, experienced this with Zoroastrianism.
But, and this is the key point, all religions eventually return to the non-personified mysticism. Case in point: Unitarianism for Christianity, Sufism for Judaism, Buddhism for Hinduism, Manicheanism for Zoroastrianism, et al, believe in an "atheist" tradition of a non-personified God. God is not a man, God is a CONCEPT. This hearkens to the days of Pythagoras when he believed God was mathematics.
Such a philosophy, in my opinion, makes more sense. Given the fact that the majority of the universe is non-sentient, why should a CONSCIOUS God represent the non-conscious universe? Furthermore, a God as seen in the Bible would and must be insane. First of all, a God that can conceive of Hell, a place worse than even a concentration camp, must be psychotic; for Him to conceive of heaven makes Him bipolar. For Him to conceive of Armageddon makes him genocidal; no, actually OMNIcidal. I doubt that any universe would be run by an insane god; if so, what is the point of religion, because religion is an attempt to appease/obey a god. Why follow a god if you cannot predict or obey it? These are the arguments against a personified God. People are by nature limited beings; an omnipotent omniscient God would overload the design, so to speak. If God can be everywhere at once, why have hands and feet?
Thus, we see an impersonal energy or principle, perhaps mathematics, perhaps sheer chaos, perhaps a combination of everything, as the "God" of the universe. I can't speculate any more than I can, but I can say that I can trust my physics equations more than I can trust Yahweh, and I can trust pure chaos to be more beautiful than Stone Age cosmology.
I would also like to dispute Blackheart's concept of the lack of an afterlife. Although I do not believe in an immortal or intangible soul, I do believe that the patterns of the atoms in our bodies make us who we are. As nothing more than slow fires, it is the pattern in which the flames burn that make us "us." (By this definition, I believe that fire IS alive, albeit no more sentient than an amoeba.)
However, this pattern can be restored. Accept, if you will, the fact that in an infinite amount of time, anything that CAN happen WILL happen to anything. Thus, somewhere along the road to infinity, perhaps 5 billion billion billion billion years ahead, all the atoms I had at the moment I died will reconfigure in a healthy newborn body, and all the atoms in my head will reconfigure in the pattern of cells my brain had the moment I died. Boom! A new lease on life.
But wait! There's more! Besides all going black and waking up in a hospital room 500,000,000 light years away ten trillion years in a future all amazed, I have more afterlives! Here are all the possible combinations:
- Same atoms, same body (younger), brain pattern as-it-was at death
- Same atoms, different body (species), at-death brain
- Different atoms, same body, at-death brain
- Different atoms, different body, at-death-brain
- Same atoms, same body, wiped-clean new brain
- Same atoms, different body, wiped-clean brain
- Different atoms, same body, same brain pattern but wiped-clean
- Different atoms, different body, wiped-clean brain
Wham! Not only ONE afterlife, but EIGHT!!! (although YOU personally can only enjoy four of them). And the best part is, it WILL happen given enough time. Remember, there is no such thing as statistical impossibility; only IMPROBABILITY. And, because the universe is only 20 billion years old, it has not happened yet. but it will....
Of course, such beliefs, although different, are allowed under a secular government. I doubt that a belief like this would catch on under a theocracy. FIGHT THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT! RELIGION SHALL _NOT_ DICTATE WHAT *MY* BELIEFS ARE! Nor should they limit yours.
However, if you would like to subscribe to my belief, you can join my new cult, err, religious group, name pending. Email demigod@infostreet.com -SERIOUS APPLICANTS ONLY! I want to start my own cult!!! :) P.S. nobody has to castrate themselves or die.
A final word on religion: Recently, the heaven's gate group killed themselves, believing that an alien ship was hiding behind the Hale-Bopp comet. Recently, however, a tail of sodium ions were found behind the comet; these ions have never been seen behind a comet before. Furthermore, the tail points the WRONG way, TOWARD the sun...as if an alien ship were speeding away from the solar system? Hmmm.... and people laugh at the concept of people dying for something they cannot see nor hear. Look at the Catholics and Neanderthals. Both cannibalize their gods (the Eucharist, eating the Cave Bear.)
Anyway... this is just my opinion. I may be wrong.
-Craqhore
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